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Apr 23 11 1:10 AM
EZPB wrote:I probably care more about her than you do, I view her as a human being, not a symbol You're talking about my position that she should have such things as "civil rights?" Like the right to have hercase adjudicated by judges, not prosecutors? Is that what you mean by her being a "symbol" to me?
I probably care more about her than you do, I view her as a human being, not a symbol
Apr 23 11 4:16 AM
EZPB wrote:Apparently not; Crystal was found to be in
possession of two (2) cashier's checks from the deceased victim's CU.
Checks not made out to her.Did he file a complaint against her for theft before he died? Or did the police come up with the theft theory on their own? Was the argument over these checks? Has she disclosed her rationale for stabbing him?
Apparently not; Crystal was found to be in
possession of two (2) cashier's checks from the deceased victim's CU.
Checks not made out to her.
Apr 23 11 5:05 AM
EZPB wrote:Like the right to have her case adjudicated by judges, not prosecutors?
Apr 23 11 2:03 PM
Prosecutors make decisions every day as to whether or not a case should be taken to trial.
Apr 23 11 4:21 PM
EZPB wrote:Prosecutors make decisions every day as to whether or not a case should be taken to trial.That's quite a different thing from a prosecutor declaring an accused person innocent. Even jurors don't declare people innocent. Cooper adjudicated the Duke case from the executive branch. A land grab.I recognize that prosecutor-shopping is the preferred way for connected people to get justice, because it spares them the trouble of such things as answering questions under oath, especially when they've taken such pains to hide behind their lawyer's skirts. But it stank. I can still smell it. I know Southerners didn't care for Earl Warren... There are stories about Warren, when he was a Judge... Sort of the way you say Crystal had no "right" to a trial. And in the long course of things, when people look back at the Duke Lacrosse case and how it was handled, they'll look at it as something to be ashamed of. If Crystal had lost in court, and been made to look the fool there, that would not be the case.
Apr 23 11 6:29 PM
First and foremost, AG Cooper dismissed,
with prejudice, charges that should never have been brought. In doing
so, he stated the obvious, that the indicted players were innocent of
all charges. Questionable (at best) IDs, tainted 'ID' sessions, no
physical evidence that the crimes charged occurred, forensic evidence
that the crimes did not occur = Innocent. That should be obvious even
to you, PB.
Prosecutor-shopping? Nifong should have
recused himself immediately after the Dec 15, 2006 hearing, when his
conflict with a crucial prosecution witness became obvious. In any
case, the case was not going to survive the Feb 5, 2007 hearing on the
players' motion in re: the 'IDs'. Statements under oath? What makes
you think that the statements made to the Special Prosecutors were not
Hey, if it still pisses off you and the j4n peeps, it must be a good thing, right?
I did not know that 'Southerners did not
care for Earl Warren'.
Nor was I aware that he was ever a judge.
Crystal, as a current defendant, does have a right to a fair trial,
should it come to that; as a complaining witness, she should have had
only an expectation of a full, fair, honest, and reasonably timely
investigation of the complaints, as should the accused. Nifong, his
office, and the DPD failed both in that regard.
How the DukeLAX case was handled is
already something for North Carolina to be ashamed of, PB; that's why
it is in the Pantheon of Egregious Prosecutorial Misconduct, and why
Nifong is the poster child. And disbarred and disgraced.
If 'Crystal had lost in court'?
It was the State v the accused. Please don't tell us that you subscribe
to Nifong's theory that Crystal was his 'client'.
Apr 23 11 8:08 PM
One point of the "adversarial system" is to provide a fair forum within which contrasting characterizations of the evidence can be fairly debated. That simply never happened.
Which specific statements are you referring to? Have I had a chance to read them?
He was a Supreme Court Judge.
Well, its a tough case when so many witnesses refuse to contribute to the investigation.
It won't last. I do wish he hadn't blubbered so much though
Her team lost. Actually, they got kicked out of the league without getting to play.
Apr 24 11 12:38 PM
The complaint and evidence must reach a
meaningful level of weight and credibility before charges are filed,
much less taken to trial. That simply never happened.
All statements given to the Special Prosecutors. RCD had already given statements, of course.
And forget the mythical $2,000 / $400, PB; it's a non-starter. Even (or especially) Nifong didn't pursue that.
But if you're talking about the other players, they were suspects
for over ~2 months after the party. Plus, they already knew that the
Captains had told DPD the truth - nothing happened, she was lying.
Do you actually think that Nifong will be redemmed? Why & how?
Apr 24 11 4:48 PM
That's your story and you're sticking to it.
Meaningful weight and credibility are in the eye of the beholder. Nifong ... chose to treat Crystal like a citizen. I appreciated that.
(unlike the players who had robbed her and locked her outside half-naked)
You were talking about answering questions under oath, weren't you?What did Colin say? I remember what he said on 60 minutes, it didn't include much detail.The players innocence was arranged by professionals, no?
It was the captain's statements that made the police think Crystal might be telling the truth, no? They were missing a few details, as I recall. Like where Crystal was when and with whom.
Oh, I think when historians look back they'll conclude that ... Nifong was, for the most part, acting in good faith, and was railroaded.Why? Because as people get more intelligent through the help of the internet, they will prefer that their accounts of history be true.
Apr 24 11 5:22 PM
Nifong admitted that he didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed.
Did you appreciate the way Nifong made sure that the complaints were not investigated properly?
Apr 25 11 7:26 AM
Could you source that one [Nifong admission that he didn't have sufficient evidence to proceed] please? I just don't know what you're referring to.
Sure. In his testimony before the DHC.
You talking about the lineup? People go through picture books full of potential suspects all the time in the hopes of recognition clues.
No, I wasn't referring to the lineup, but now that you brought it up, Crystal didn't "go through picture books full of potential suspects".
Is there a difference between looking through a catalog of ex-cons or pedophiles and through a catalog of lacrosse players?
Yes, a big difference, given that it wasn't just a "catalog of lacrosse players". Especially if the police think that all included players attended the party, and a non-independent administrator gives the eyewitness an indication of that.
It wasn't a lineup, because the police had no suspects!!!
LOL. DPD's General Order No. 4077 doesn't differentiate between "lineups" (photographic arrays & show-up identifications) and the mythical construct that Nifong and you imagine.Contrary to your assertion, there were 46 suspects. What part of "There are reasonable grounds to suspect that you committed the offense" do you still not understand, PB? Or do you think that the DA's office and DPD were lying when they submitted that to a judge in re: all 46 players?
As it turned out, Nifong's method worked out. She managed to choose Re[a]de, who had a better alibi than she might have counted on
'Worked out'? I'd guess that Reade & his family would disagree. But your comment does seem to indicate that you believe that her ID was bogus.
Isn't Tony the one who said "she's just a hooker," or some such thing?
I couldn't say, but we do know that both Butch Williams and Fats Thomas made references to her real line of work. Fats said that Crystal 'was more of a hooker than a stripper. She was stripping to advertise for hooking.', or some such thing.
Wasn't he with Dave when they led her topless back into the house...
When was she ever 'topless'? She left as she arrived and remained, 'scantily clad', not topless or half-naked as you suggest.
Apr 25 11 10:05 AM
Contrary to your assertion, there were 46
suspects. What part of "There are reasonable grounds to suspect that
you committed the offense" do you still not understand, PB? Or do you
think that the DA's office and DPD were lying when they submitted that
to a judge in re: all 46 players?
I'd guess that Reade & his family
would disagree. But your comment does seem to indicate that you believe
that her ID was bogus.
When was she ever 'topless'?
Apr 25 11 4:37 PM
46 suspected of a crime that only 3 were accused of committing? And the only connection to these "suspects" and the crime are their proximity to where it was alleged to have occurred?
I think if I were the judge in that case, I'd be hesitant to order those suspects to turn over their dna.
Unless, of course, they were refusing to cooperate in the investigation, which would bring in the issue of "accessories to the crime."
I mean, society has a limited but clear right to interpret the silence of its citizens in a way that makes possible its responsibility to investigate criminal allegations. Isn't that all that happened here?
If she says they did, that's cause for me to set aside any prejudice I might have and provide a forum wherein the evidence can be properly presented
I find it disgusting that that didn't happen here.
Dave Evans in his statement to police stated that Crystal's "boobs were exposed
Apr 25 11 5:52 PM
No "unless", PB. One is either in favor
of Constitutional rights, or one is not. You clearly fall in the latter
group, with your suggestion that it's OK to violate one of a person's
Constitutional rights as punishment for availing themselves of another
WTF would DNA & pics have to do with "accessories to the crime", except another violation of rights?
And apparently that forum can only be a trial, according to you. Why not a properly-run investigation?
Boo fucking hoo. Only in your fevered brain.
OK, so not 'topless' as you previously claimed.
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